This article includes detailed descriptions of sexual assault.
Girl stops talking to boy.
Shortly after, he attempts an apology but the friendship phases out.
Julie Jup/Adobe Stock
Fourteen years pass by, and Vanasco reaches out to Mark again.
This time, he agrees to speak on the record.
He owes her that much, he says.
In the time that has passed, the way the world talks about sexual assault changes.
Can nice guys be rapists?
Vanasco is not alone in asking these questions.
Did I resist enough?
Am I making a big deal out of nothing?
And I convinced myself that if we got romantically involved, it would make what happened right.
It was so toxic.
:Wow, Im so sorry that happened to you.
I tried to maintain a relationship with the guy who raped me in my mid-twenties.
I think so many women dont report because they judge their own behavior.
Yeah, I still feel so ashamed.
Wait, are you working on any key in of book or essay?
Because it sounds like such an important story.
Do you think that writing the book was helpful for you?
Had I not pursued the book, I dont think I would have reached out to Mark.
I did get some closure by reaching out to him and hearing him say what he did was wrong.
That was a hugely rewarding experience.
Do other victims of sexual assault or rape often approach you for advice?
People do, and Im hesitant just because situations are so different.
Thats what makes sexual assault very complicated in terms of punishment.
There is so much nuance.
Its hard to give advice.
I wish the justice system were better.
I wish there were therapeutic treatments for perpetrators.
Then, I would think he should be punished because the punishment would be productive.
It is really jarring to say the wordsI was rapedaloud.
I guess I dont want to think of myself as a victim.
Throughout the book, I noticed you becoming more comfortable using the word.
Thats why legal language can be so important.
I think a lot of guys dont think of it as bad because they didnt use their penis.
For a long time, I definitely had trouble using the word.
I didnt want to offend any woman who had been “traditionally raped.”
When I talked to my friends about it, they were like, thats ridiculous.
Are you able to use the word now or do you still have trouble?
I still have trouble, but I did at dinner just now.
I think looking at language is helpful and I wish rape were talked about in high school.
We never talked about it.
Recently, my partner and I were watching Sally RooneysNormal People.
I loved the novel and the show portrays consent in such a wonderful way.
In a later episode, she wants to sleep with him but shes drunk and he says no.
What a great model.
Often, pop culture is what shifts the conversation.
As writers, language matters, and I think this is a concrete example of how language enacts change.
You also talk a lot about your friendships with women.
How important is it for you to have these kinds of conversations with your friends?
Some of my friends and I disagree.
Early on, one of my friends was frustrated with due process.
She was like, “If a few innocent guys get caught up in it, oh well.
Im so sick of men getting away with this.”
And then I pushed back.
I felt bad, but I said, “What guys are going to get caught up?
Is that worth it?”
I see it as hurting men of color and poor men.
But we fundamentally agreed, and I think thats how change happens: messy conversations within a movement.
Having these conversations with my friends is interesting, but so is talking about what happened to us.
It was so helpful to share the transcripts of the phone calls with Mark with my friends.
I dont know what I would have done without my friends.
Do you think its ever possible to salvage a relationship with someone who raped you?
I have trouble imagining it.
I dont think that means its not possible.
It would be a different relationship.
For me, with Mark, I would have trouble trusting him again.
I dont hate him.
I hope he reflects on this and is a better person.
I cant imagine being friends with him again.
Do you think it helps you to wish him well?
I know there is this idea to forgive and you will feel better.
I dont think thats real forgiveness because thats for yourself.
I say I forgive Mark, but I also have trouble separating him from the person who hurt me.
I dont know if it helps me to wish him well but I do.
At some point, Mark told me he “ruined my life.”
He didnt ruin my life.
This conversation has been edited and condensed.
